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Join us at Android Emulator accuracy tests:. Are you an emulator developer? If you'd like a user flair reflecting that. Hello community! I wanted to talk a bit about two things that are strongly related, that I feel are quite important for the Emulation community and that unfortunately are not getting the attention they need to be preserved. One is the state of J2ME/Java/Jar/Midlet emulation (not sure the exact term for it, but consensus seems to be J2ME) and the other is the (lack of) preservation of software made for mobile platforms (which has a number of implications and problems) First of, what is J2ME?
J2ME (Java 2 Platform, Micro Edition) is/was a technology that allowed programmers to use the Java programming language and related tools to develop programs for mobile wireless information devices such as cellular phones and personal digital assistants. In practice it was the dominant programming language for software made for mobile devices for a bast number of years, (I'd say up until Android came out, and even then, it remained for a while since it was so popular).
So, we had all these mobile phones and such, and all their software (games, aplications, etc) were made based on this language built around Java. I am also very interested in this. When i got into emulation one of the things i was the most excited about was being able to play the games i used to play on my mobile phone in highschool. (especially the ones from Fishlabs.
Those were awesome). It was very dissapointing to see that the only option is a barely functioning piece of software. KEmulator has a lot of problems aside from the memory leak. It was not designed to be used to play games but rather for testig software and thus has no features one would expect in an emulator. I am not aware of how J2ME works but i'm pretty sure you don't actually have to emulate the hardware of the mobile phone. KEmu has like a hundred emulatable phone models and i really doubt someone coded an actual emulator for their hardware.
They are most likely a spec sheet with parameters for tte runtime. While running kemulator, i have also noticed that while running 3D games, you can change the resolution and it scales perfectly. (game used was Fishlabs' Deep 3D). The only thing holding that back is the fact that the cpu speed is locked to that of the phone profile being used and if you try to use a higher resolution than 240x320 (iirc) it slows down to 0 + framerates.
In conclusion, i believe, based on those observation that KEmulator is not actually a low level emulator but rather a compatibility layer with set runtime parameters and thus an open source alternative should be quite easy to program since there is extensive documentation available on J2ME. We can only hope that someone decides to take on this project and it somehow takes the form of a libretro core. I'm sure many people would be very grateful. TL;DR: Pls maek emulatr is eazy. In conclusion, i believe, based on those observation that KEmulator is not actually a low level emulator but rather a compatibility layer with set runtime parameters and thus an open source alternative should be quite easy to program since there is extensive documentation available on J2ME. I also suspect the same, but unfortunately other than being quite aware of the emulation scene, and contributing as a 'news poster' or interviewing emulator authors in my younger years, I have little to nothing to contribute at least on the coding side of things.
Even the format,.jar seem to be mere containers of information, the fact that the Java Runtime is required and the wide range of 'emulators' leads me to believe the same thing as you, but I don't know to be honest. What place or in which way do you think a workable set could start to be formed and shared?
(and actively contributed?) via torrent? Other sites that are more adept to this sort of projects? I think torrents or sites like emuparadise would be the best option. Also, it must be taken into account that the library is composed of 98% utter garbage (shovelware is a soft word) and 2% actual good games (much like the current mobile game library which i have no doubt will suffer the same fate). It would be useless to compile a full romset since someone who is interested in playing trough it will have to plow trough literally thousands of 'Sexy Puzzle Chalenge' 'games' before actually coming across something worth checking out. Not to mention that it would be pretty much imposible to archive the entirety of the library since it is enormous (as in thousands if not tens of thousands).
Even though there were thousands of 'games' on the market at the time, most of the worthwhile ones were made by a handfull of 'Premium' developers, such as Fishlabs, Gameloft, Herocraft, Digital Chocolate, Pop Cap, EA, etc. So I would suggest, rather than compiling a list of all the good games on the market, making a list of the devs that produced them and then archiving their libraries, which shouldn't be too hard.
Then, it sould be uploaded to EP as a 'collection of good games'. Sure, it would be incomplete but at least it would be something.
An alternative to that is querying the public for suggestions of good games but that would be a rather difficult task given the lack of interest (and considering that most of the popular games were made by the aforementioned devs). The emulator problem is more tricky than that since it obviously requires someone who can really program (which i am not). EDIT: I guess a wiki would do but it would be a pretty big undertaking. MEGA download links could also be posted on the wiki since I doubt anyone would still care about the copyright. I agree it's a hard task, similar to what happens with Goodsets and the huge number of hacks, even more since there are subdivision on the system based on the resolution, some versions support touch input, while others don't, et. In practice not only do you have thousand of different games, but to top it off, each game was escentially made for a specific resolution, AND for a different mobile model. Sometimes those overlap, but not everytime.to top it off, there also were regional versions!
It's interesting that they share the same save tho, as long as they are kept in the same resolution; for example I can run a certain version in 240x320 resolution, and all the versions will share the save and progress without any sort of problem (even with regional/language changes!) but if I change the resolution it's treated as a new save. Quite interesting, I'm experimenting a bit with the files I'm getting, hopefuly it allows for a smooth compression like what happens between identical roms/similar roms from different regions. I dont think there are more than 400 (at most) J2ME games worth preserving out there. A great part of them are made by the major devs and that would make archiving them easy.
Sure, there are a lot of hidden gems and a wiki would be perfect for finding them out. Most of the games work on all J2ME phones, except i guess the ones that use touch controls (like Bounce). Even then, they are somewhat universal as they only require the input and the runtime. As for the regional versions, i think it would be pointless preserving all of them. The english versions should suffice. I think i might be spewing nonsense here but could there be a way to decompile the.jar files and make them run on regular java runtimes?
EDIT: Found This:. This post is self promotion. J2ME/Java ME are virtual machine specifications and are not emulators in any way. I personally am working on SquirrelJME which intends to implement Java ME 8's virtual machine (Java ME is the successor to J2ME).
It is licensed under the GNU AGPLv3+. It is perhaps half a year to a year away from any sense of completion since I just started it in March.
It is not currently in a state where there are programs running. The virtual machine's execution environment would be AOT/JIT, I have recently decided that supporting interpretation would be a non-goal since it is likely to not be used (it would also be very slow). Standard wise, I intend to support the following:. Main Library: Java ME 8 Full. MEEP: 8.0. GCF: 8.0. MIDP: 3.0 (Technically MIDP was deprecated and removed, but I will support it anyway since much software depends on it and the fact that it is the latest JSR that supports GUI elements) When it does get to a complete enough state, it should easily run any J2ME game at high-speed (assuming the device running the environment is more powerful than a decade to two decade old phone).
Likely the first native system the environment would run on is Linux PowerPC, since that is my main development environment. Then after that is supported, support for other systems can be implemented. There are benefits to RISCs such as MIPS and PowerPC:. All instructions are 4 bytes wide, so if a result of native compilation gives me 90 01 00 14 then I know easily it is a store word. On m68k/x86 due to the variable length instruction set, you need to know the instructions before to know which instruction the current one is. There is less need to copy and paste the raw hex to a disassembler to know what an instruction does.
No segmentation. More registers (32 compared to 8/16). Not orthogonal, all operations apart of store/load operate on registers only. More strict than x86.
Also, my recent x86 systems always seem to fail one way or another (such as dead SATA ports, dead motherboards, failing to POST, etc.). I still have Pentium 3s but they are quite slow and power hungry, although those systems will soon be about 2 decades old. Nice, much of the technical aspect you just shared escapes me actually (for example what does supporting interpretation mean and the implications of it not being a goal) Since you are obviously more versed on the subject, could you share some interesting details perhaps? Something I don't quite get is that there are multiple versions of a certain MIDP, let's say Final Fantasy, one version supports touch controls, has better graphics, more options (music + sfx) yet they all share the exact same savefile for progress. Do you have any info on how the MIDP files interact with the hardware?
I've noticed a Metadata file inserted into every file, in some cases more complex than others. I'm talking out of my ass here, but how feasable would it be to implement something like this on libretro as a core dedicated to emulation? Thanks any info is apprecciated, and best of luck with your efforts, deffo keep us posted. For example what does supporting interpretation mean and the implications of it not being a goal Interpretation apart from native compilation is where in this case the Java byte code is executed using a translation loop. Basically it looks at an instruction and then determines what it should do.
The goal with JIT/AOT would be to transform the Java byte code into native code so that this what an instruction does logic is performed in hardware rather than software on the native CPU. Generally, native compilation of code which would be interpreted is generally about 40x-200x faster. However, the overhead of the compiler for extremely small programs can end up being slower (interpreting 2+2 would generally be faster than translating it to native code). However once classes are compiled they can be cached and used in the future, one just requires disk space to store the cache. Generally due to the slow speed of the interpreter, most users in generall will never use it.
You can see how slow Java is if you use the interpreter by passing the command line switch -zero, modern JVMs use native compilation to vastly increaase execution speed. Multiple versions of a certain MIDP There are MIDP 1.0, 2.0, 2.1, and 3.0. These are just evolutions of the same standard. MIDP provides a set of classes and interface which are used by conforming programs so that despite the difference in hardware/software of the host OS, in general the interaction with the user can remain the same.
You can think of MIDP being a very compact Swing. MIDP is designed so that it can be used by a wide range of devices (PDAs with touch screens, cell phones, desktop systems, etc.) and on screens that are generally very small (160x160 up to 480x640). One thing to consider however is that some parts of MIDP may be optional or unsupported. For example if your device only has a piezo then you can only emit simple beeps and not PCM/MIDI audio.
There are usually multiple versions of the same software because if you cannot play MIDI sounds then it would be pointless to include it. I've noticed a Metadata file inserted into every file, in some cases more complex than others. If you are referring to META-INF/MANIFEST.MF, that is just the standard manifest which specifies the program icon, the starting point, and what it is called. MIDlets can contain multiple starting points (so a single JAR could say provide a spreadsheet editor and a text editor for example).
MIDP 3.0 adds support for libraries which reduces the size of the JAR files (previously if you used a library you had to merge the JARs). But how feasable would it be to implement something like this on libretro as a core dedicated to emulation? Have not looked at LibRetro, but as long as it provides a facility to obtain user input, a framebuffer, optionally provides a virtual file system interface, and is a simple protocol or library it could be supported as a kind of variant target. If the library uses C then it would be very difficult to support due to the differences in C ABIs across systems.